New BM Idea's (for the future)

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New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Lady_T » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:59 pm

What sort of idea's is the community thinking of? A game is only as much fun as the things in it :P

One idea Dekker and Mitch are thinking of is this:

You kill an orc and it drops an axe that you realy like (the model).
The orcs can drop different types of axes (which all axes will have a preview button so u can see what they look like).
Once you have this axe, you can dismantle it for a chance to learn its design so that you can now use that design for axe creations/expertise.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Another form of that is this:

Kill orc. Orc drops axe. Preview axe, and if you like its design, use it in your axe expertise with your GS and dust and the newly created axe will be using that axe's model

ex:
Include your fully aged Greatsword, 500 blue dust, Orcish Axe.
If you hit the correct Workvalue and its created, instead of the default axe, it will use that orcish axe model instead of the default!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Lopsided » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:48 am

I was talking to Shadow the other day about some ideas I had for the game and since they liked them all I figured I'd share with the rest for comments and criticism.

Mage Overhaul
Currently mages are restricted to solely a support role. The staff mechanic was implemented but never truly derived in any way leaving it broken and basically just a use to raise your magic skills higher for sake of stat totes and clvls.

I would like to see mages become powerful but fragile damage dealers. Always as much or more damage as fighters but crippled due to far far fewer hp. The idea I had to implement this was a new set of skills which mages would use to create staves used for battle. Use dusts the same way as swords do. Combine 64 splinters of wood and xxx dust to make a wand. 32 more splinters and xxx dust to make a staff (could add other skills for chaos/bladestaff equivalents etc). Exactly same mechanics, just the WV would be based on mage stat instead of crea (more on this in a min). Damage from the staffs would work the same way swords do for fighters. Magestat *Wood dmg val blahblahblah.

NOW. This is where things get hectic. We just gave mages a whole new set of skills to level, won't this create a massive disparity in clvls? The tricky balancing answer is no, which brings me to the other support role of BM. A much more wholly supportive and mindnumbingly annoying grinding role.

Removal of Smiths
Currently the only way to make a decent sword is to make a smith and spend painstaking hours leveling his creative skills. All the while, every decent fighter also levels these skills eventually for sake of raising his own character level. I say cut out the middle man. Make swordsmith, explosives, and all expertises WVs based off the physical stat. This way you can eliminate a character who has only one linear use and streamline character progression throughout the game. Fighters make swords and explosives, mages make staffs and command geomancy. Fighters and mages would both also get a skill to dismantle their respective weapons. With the redistribution of skills, no skills are based on the now useless creative stat. I say remove it entirely. Allow people to spec 10/1 to 1/10, anywhere of their choosing.

Which moves us right along to another interesting yet horribly restricted feature of BM.

Drakes
Drakes are an awesome idea. I love the idea of having a drake helping me fight. I hate the idea of requiring to have a specific character type to use one. Maybe I like swords AND dragons. I propose we revamp the required stats to hatch drakes. 1 mage stat = Plain. 2 = Striped. 5 = Spotted. 10 = Hooded. Make the difference in damage/effect sufficient that you can notice the difference. Which brings me into the drakes damage itself which is quite meaningful at first and depressing the further you advance in the game. Make pet damage scale based on clvl. Something like (Base dmg + Clvl) * (1 + .1*TypeMod). Plain=1, Striped =2, Spotted=3, Hooded=4. With this formula, a 10/1 and 1/10 would do the same damage with comparable weapons but the mage's drake would be doing ~25% more damage. Gives him a slight edge in damage but the fighter has the advantage in survival.

Speaking of scaling...

Maces
Seriously, maces are amazing with low metals and just lackluster with high metals. The reason: non-scaling. For those of you who don't understand what I mean by "scaling" is that the damage gained by expertising a mace is static. +30 dmg value. Once your metal has a damage value higher than that upon crafting, the bonus damage falls further and further behind that of the chaos, which multiplies your damage gain, not adds. Chaos weapons do (on average) 145% of the damage of a bladestaff or claw. I propose that instead of simply adding 30 damage when expertising the weapon, we multiply the damage value so that the damage done is equal to 130% that of a bladestaff or claw. In the long haul, more than likely the chaos will out-damage a mace. However, the results are completely up to chance. This will ensure that maces stay competitive no matter what metal is used to craft.

Random Damage
This is just another one of those ideas to spice up the monotony. When I swing my sword I know one of 3 specific numbers is going to appear and that's because I use the EXCITING chaos. Those of you who chose maces... I hope you like reading one number. Seriously, let's mix it up a bit. Add a small variable for damage.

Body and Mind
As a corollary to all other changes and the elimination of the Creative stat, I had the idea to change the name of the physical stat to Body and the magical stat to Mind. Cosmetic change, but one I liked nonetheless.


That's about all I have for now, I'm sure I've forgotten a few other things but I'll be back to check in after a while =)
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Lopsided » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:51 am

Lady_T wrote:What sort of idea's is the community thinking of? A game is only as much fun as the things in it :P

One idea Dekker and Mitch are thinking of is this:

You kill an orc and it drops an axe that you realy like (the model).
The orcs can drop different types of axes (which all axes will have a preview button so u can see what they look like).
Once you have this axe, you can dismantle it for a chance to learn its design so that you can now use that design for axe creations/expertise.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Another form of that is this:

Kill orc. Orc drops axe. Preview axe, and if you like its design, use it in your axe expertise with your GS and dust and the newly created axe will be using that axe's model

ex:
Include your fully aged Greatsword, 500 blue dust, Orcish Axe.
If you hit the correct Workvalue and its created, instead of the default axe, it will use that orcish axe model instead of the default!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


How about instead of an orc dropping an axe, make a rare mob called an orc smith which can drop an orcish axe mold. Or just make it a very rare drop from any orc. In any case, when put in the bench, axes take that model instead of the normal. Could be returned when crafting as well as the axe itself. Would provide incentive to go with xxx smith in game who you know can make xxx types of axes (orc, dwarf, etcetc). Could do with all weapon/staff types.
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Dekker3D » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:48 am

the axe mold is a fine idea, though i like the thought of just killing some mob and using his weapon to murder his friends. it makes things a little more.. interesting.

although orc smiths would be cool too. how about some kind of settlements for humanoids, then, instead of the current random groupings of mobs? they'd still all go for you when you get nearby, but it makes more sense for them to just be idling there if they're in a village with smiths and mages and such. also, designing those settlements would be fun :)


as for lopsided's idea, i do agree that mages could be more useful. i've tried making a battlemage when i was new, and i'm sure many others have done the same.. it's just no fun the way it is now. of course, since this new engine won't have the grid we're all used to, it won't be as unfair for mages to do some damage from a distance so it's actually an option to rebuild them into capable fighters. it will be a more active playstyle than a fighter though, as you'd need to run to ensure your own safety. not sure how that'll fall with the bm community.
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby wildjjbug » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:20 pm

i still think pvp would be the best idea.

ability to loot all of the persons gear other than sword and totems would be a good idea or something around that range
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Lady_T » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:13 pm

all very good idea's :D keep em coming guys!

so far im realy thinking on redoing the mage system so we can actualy have a sort of battle-mage. this will of course all come way later on, for now its going to be very close if not almost identicle to how BM is right now.

As for the molds for axes, i think thats also a good idea. If you get that weapon's mold from an enemy, you include the mold when expertise'ing your weapon, and it uses that mold for the expertise. Not only does it give a new item in the game that would be sought after, but also another item to spend some money on :)

as i recall the only thing to spend money on was special event items, swords, skilling items, and dust....not much of a selection.

also in the future we may have ..extra's..you can put in your guild :) things that actualy have a purpose or just things that would look cool :) that all depends on what the community wants :P
but as i said, for now myself and my team (Iresh, Dekker, Mitch, and hopefully a scripter soon) are trying to get this new project as close to BM as possible. the only big differences will be free movement and maybe a few more minor differences that i feel the community may like :)
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Likopi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:44 pm

First I'm pro pvp, as long it doesn't harm me when I don't want to. Create a special realm for pvp battles, or an extra option in the menu where you can allow pvp attacks or not. Of course if this option is disabled you cannot attack other players either. This is to prevent players who don't really like pvp (like myself) to get annoyed by the game, and prevent noobs to get ripped off whole the time by the big ass players.

Of course, this can add something to guilds aswell. Spex can be more usefull now.
We can for example add guild battles/Wars. Alliances can be created. The aspect of being in a guild can be totally different.

But don't make the pvp go generally everywhere. Not everyone likes pvp!
----------------------
About the new mage advantages.
I'v got an idea about the new skills. If I understand everything correctly, you'd make staffs a weapon for a mage, like a chaos is for a fighter?
One that has endless hits. In that case the new skills can't be to hard to find.
Fire Skill
Poisonous Skill
Slowing Skill
Stunning Skill
Tangle Skill
Blinding Skill
Just like we had our staffs before. But then we loose the din powers. Which I liked in some cases.
So maybe, have a certain age where mages can improve their skills (or buy an upgrade for this skill) so they get din hits.
Image
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Lopsided » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:32 am

Lik, I actually had in mind to ditch the current staff types and just basically have mages have a staff equivalent of katana/chaos/tachi/bladestaff/claw. "Din" staffs would be the bladestaff equivalent, etc.

Couple other topics I've been considering...

Katana Scaling
As I said before with the mace, the katana also has a problem with scaling. Everyone's first decent weapon is a tachi, probably zinc. The added accuracy is invaluable before you can gather dusts of your own. However, after that, the skill serves only to provide clvls as NO ONE makes high dusted katanas when they could get the damage of a chaos or mace. The issue here is addition instead of multiplication yet again. Make tachis gain 20 accuracy AND a percentage of blues upon expertise. Allowing you to make a much more accurate, albeit less damaging weapon. Someone might actually make one ;)

Speaking of useless expertises...

Claws
Man, they look nice. Man, that's the end of the good parts. They interrupt dodge skilling and as such serve only as killing weapons. However, the benefit of the claw stun has been supplanted by silver dusts. My suggestion is a little involved but hang with me and pay attention to the numbers. It could serve a great purpose.

I propose we replace Claw Expertise with Twin Claws Expertise. Upon expertise, the greatsword is converted into two claws, one for each hand. Because there are two claws, they will receive half the dusts each and therefore only half the total of each dust will be applied to the blades. (Ex: 500 blues on GS, exp to Claws and add 350 blues and 20 silvers. 850 blues total/2 = 425 toHit. 20 silvers/2 = 10 silvers.) Also due to crafting two smaller weapons instead of one, the claws will only do 80% of the would-be expertised damage each (160% total).

The silvers will do no less damage because while the value has been halved the number of swings has doubled which cancels out. Currently chaos is the damage king, doing on average 145% of the damage listed on a weapon. The claws would outdamage a chaos, but at the severe disadvantage of requiring far more dusts to make a viable weapon. This would serve as a hardcore player's pinnacle weapon while casual players would do well to simply pick a chaos.

One more for now...

Accuracy
The current BM system is very unfriendly when it comes to accuracy. Either you can hit a mob or you can't. For instance, my alt is easily strong enough to dispatch a pit vampire, but cannot because my alt chaos only has 219 blues and only land 1/10 hits if that. Someone with 225 blues could hit 99% of the time. Harsh punishment for 6 blue difference.

I suggest that the new system implement a percentage system. If a lava totem is worth 21 accuracy and my weapon has 300 blues, accuracy is 321. If a mob has 350 defense, I should land (321/350*100) 91.7% of my attacks, not 10% or less. Would serve to get newer players more interested in world events which usually involve mobs impossible for them to hit in the current system, whereas they'll score some hits and get their share in the latter.
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby Dekker3D » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:40 am

ah yes, i'd suggest we give all weapons a scaling component anyway. it's pretty lame for the bladestaff and the chaos to be the only weapons worth crafting at a higher level, isn't it? sure, one's got to be the best, but the others aren't even close in this case.

i have an idea for the weapon types too, but it's very far from what we're used to in bm so i won't be sharing the details until i've discussed it with some friends. basically, it means that the (so far well received) weapon molds idea gets an additional use: each model has a slight variation on a weapon's base stats, but not nearly as drastic as simply choosing another expertise. it'll add some flavour and give players a little more room to play with when picking a weapon to make. where the difference between a chaos and a katana is 20 accuracy versus 45% extra damage.. the difference between two variations would be at most 5% in some stats.
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Re: New BM Idea's (for the future)

Postby jada » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:28 pm

Whole bunch of ideas posted at http://thenewgame.smfforfree.com Dekker, Bedlam and Arkwright have full access to this board...
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